Should marijuana be legal?

5% of MJ comes from Canada into the US, 40% comes from south the border and 45% is grown in the US

How can you tax something you can grow. Then it will be a fight against tax evasion instead of drug use. Get rid of it we don't need it. If you need it move because the majority doesn't want it.

bob, currently 44 percent of Americans are supporting the legalization of Marijuana, and 52 percent are against it. The numbers supporting legalization are growing at a rapid rate and those against it are declining.

That's because they give in or don't even vote on the subject any more. I won't give in because I feel we shouldn't look the other way. Kinda like the people that stood by and watched the rape at the subway. Fealt that it wasn't their problem and just looked the other way. This is how America is going and people like you are supporting it. Forget about the laws as long as what I'm doing is good for me. Keep the innocent deaths on your head because that is where they belong. Fighting for good is the way to go. Not giving in.

Look Bob, marijuana use helps many people with illnesses, it causes less problems than alcohol and I will fight for the rights of Americans to choose to smoke the herb if they want to. It is good for a lot of things, and you have yet to convince anybody that it is bad. I resent your implication that "people like me" are in any way shape or form of the pathetic excuses of men who stood by and allowed that girl to be raped.

I can assure you that not one of those "innocent" deaths caused by the cartel are on my head. You are the first to hit my ignore list. Congratulations.

I agree but I would have to take exception with the "tax the hell out of it" mentality. Of course there should be reasonable taxes in line with the rates for other consumer products with a couple of percentage points added to fund treatment programs but I get the idea people are looking at rates above 25% one the end product as well as taxing the plant itself.

If it is heavily taxed, what happens to the person that grows their own?

Legalize it and tax it. Alcohol is legal, but there is a price for that status

Yea and the black market will magically disappear, the drug cartels will graciously sustain the cut in their income and peacebly bow out of the business....

If they don't our border patrol will succesfully stop them from bringing in their goods. We will successfully prohibit the underworld from creating an underground black market that will undercut legal pot prices with their lower cost untaxed, unregulated product

Then our government will create yet another bureacracy to efficiently and effectively Weed out, if you will, the massive amount of corruption and greed that will follow the legalization of pot

This in turn will be followed by a bunch of goofy liberals who will create a giant ad campaign to educate the masses on the proper usage of the drug.

Like the ones telling the masses how bad it is to bootleg and illegally download movies..We all know how effective that is.

Then they will pass laws defining the legal amount of THC one can have in one's blood stream to operate a motor vehicle, etc, etc basically the same schizo crap we have set up for alcohol ....

that's what we need to pull us out of recession I'm sure and thats the kind of change we're talking about ....lol

Put down the bongs people think logically for more than a minute if its still at all possible

Geesh!!

Repeal of alcohol prohibition put the rum runners and gangsters out of business, why not drug trafficers?

Are you sure of that...the mob went out of business, they're not in the liquor distribution business. I take it you don't live in New Jersey or Chicago. Been to Vegas lately?

Newark New Jersey for instance, one example of a mostly Black population.... about 95% Black, with a very high poverty rate....

Please do some research on who owns the liquor licenses and how many liquor establishments per square mile in that town.

I'd do it for you but I already know and you need to find out on your own.

The mob may still be around, but they are not in the liquor business. Besides there were many more than the mob involved in bootlegging during prohibition. Repeal wiped them all out.

Locked down? You mean locked out too don't you? Not an easy business to get into if you know what I mean.

Cmon Jimster, be totally honest. If you know that much, you also know that the fortunes the Mob amassed afforded them inroads into "legal" businesses aka fronts.

Many of those are "liquor" establishments. If you're in distribution you cannot tell me you're not aware of a lot of shady characters...

Dude.... I'm from Jersey, urban Jersey, the hood. The world of bars, night clubs, after hours, juke boxes, vending machines, hot dog carts, radio air play, Atlantic City.... that should tell you I know a little something.

I have a list of over 60 natually growing plants that I would like you to smoke. We legalized alchohol and that was bad enough. We don't neeed anything else to screw up our lives. My brother in law gave up weed. He is now buying a house. First responsible thing he has done in the 15 years I've known him. His mother is actually proud of him. And wonders if it's because he is not using. His sister says probably, because when she used it made her lazy and not give a sh%&.

And wonders if it's because he is not using. His sister says probably, because when she used it made her lazy and not give a sh%&.

Just like any other substance, the effects vary on different people, so amother lame excuse to not legalize MJ -you anti-pot are all missing the point here - MJ is the safest drug of all and has more medicinal bennefits for a number of illness - name one prescribed drug that has this property? you can't.

bob,

Pot is far less detrimental to the body than alcohol, which is legal. Why do you look at pot in a different light? I would think that alcohol is more destructive on family's than marijuana as well. I have seen alcohol ruin many lives, I have not once seen marijuana ruin anyone's life.

My brother in law gave up weed. He is now buying a house.

Oh boy, You mean only non-weed-smokers are able to buy a house?

It must be nice to be so rightious, to be so much better then everyone, to be so perfect, to be so smart as to know what is best for the rest of us. It must be nice to be you, Bob! NOT!

I guess I better move out of my house that I have owned out right for 10 years!!! Yes, I smoke pot and paid off my home loan within 10 years. WOW I sure am glad POT made me not care and become lazy!!!!!!!!

Mars, Jimster, Sick of, and Sea, Since my bro-in-law quit I've seen him be more responsible. O.K. If he got put in jail that would have been O.K. because he broke the law. Come up with a better punishment, I'm listening. I've seen pot and alcohol ruin lives. You say pot isn't as bad for you as alcohol. I would rather them outlaw alcohol than legalize pot. Because actually we don't need either because they cause problems like mars stated earlier in a post. I drink, but I don't need. Why is it that so many people will fight for something that is bad for them. Why do you need so badly. Why don't you push for more rehab to help you with your addiction. If everybody would quit using just think of the money that could be saved on the war on drugs, medical, crime involved to get the drugs. Don't you think the U.S. without drugs or alcohol would be better? I do. O.K. now it is your turn to tell me how much better we would be to have pot legalized and how it won't hurt anybody, no problems what so ever. And hope someone is dumb enough to believe what you are saying. The U.S. would be better off with no alcohol or weed. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Because I like having a toke and others like to drink, some do both Bob and why should you, anyone else or the government tell me otherwise, its my life and if i'm not harming anyone else stay out of my business. I'm an adult to know that hard drugs such as heroin is not for me, I know where my responsibilities lie just like I know my responsibilities when getting behind the steering wheel of a car, let us decide what we do with our lives. You don't want to take pot - fine I respect that, just respect my drug of choice, its not like I'm killing myself using heroin - why don't they go for these drugs and leave drugs which are scientific proven to be safe such as marijuana and ecstacy. Hit the ones that do fcuk your life - Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, LSD

Well Bob: Prohibition was tried and failed. People are people and most (if not all) need some kind of crutch. You even stated yourself that you drink, but do not need. Well I smoke, but do not need. What is the difference? Have you tried to quit your "no need" drink. You might find that you actually do "need" since it is physically addicting (unlike pot). I have quit pot numerous times. Sometimes volunteeringly, other times demanded upon me (work piss test). I constantly test my limits with any substance. I will stop drinking for months (if not years) at a time. I smoke cigarettes, then will quit for years. I am always watching my addictions, as not to let them control me. I have been addicted before and let me tell you - THAT SUCKS!!!

I have a question for you Bob. You state that you would rather outlaw liqour than legalize pot. That America would be better off without either - Yet you drink. A little hypocritical maybe? I am so glad to see you are in complete control of an addicting substance - and that my friend is called denial.

The bottom line is the money saved from the legal system, and prison systems. Why put millions in the hands of drug dealers, when we the people could take that money for whatever use we seem best. The legalization of marijuana would be such an economic boost and take so much stress off of our legal and prison systems. Athorities could concentrate on victim crimes. The only people that will get hurt are the people of the car accidents. This will happen regardless since these people that drink and drive seem to not comprehend the dangers and will do it on alcohol or pot or whatever. USA without leagalization = stressed out, pissed off people. A lot like the populous at the beginning of prohibition - before the speakeasies arose! I have never known anybody to be violent or even pissed off on Pot.

Ok Bob, I'll take a good faith shot at your perfectly valid questions.

Come up with a better punishment, I'm listening

First off what gives any man the right to punish another for doing something to himself?
If someone loses control of their ability to control their intake of mood/mind altering substances, then we should help them, not punish them. You admittedly drink, I don't for an instance automatically assume you are an alcoholic, but if you were I would try to help you overcome your illness, not seek out some punitive measure.

Why is it that so many people will fight for something that is bad for them

Because it is NOT bad for them, there is way too much evidence to the contrary. A better question would be: Why does law enforcement get so bent out of shape over some terminally ill person's desire to live out the rest of their short days in a peaceful state?

Why do you need so badly. Why don't you push for more rehab to help you with your addiction?

I don't need it badly, just like you don't need your drink badly. There are many links I could provide you with that show that pot is not addictive, contrary to what the governments propaganda on the subject have lead you to believe. However, I think you would benefit from researching the subject on your own.

Why do you assume that if someone smokes pot then they are automatically an addict? By that logic, we all should automatically assume you are an Alcoholic.

Don't you think the U.S. without drugs or alcohol would be better?

There are places in the world today without drugs and alcohol. Are they better that the U.S.? No f'in' way! We are a country founded on the principles of Liberty. Liberty is the freedom to choose your own path through life. All the places in the world that don't allow libations are based on the principles of religious tyranny. Is that what you want the U.S. to become?

O.K. now it is your turn to tell me how much better we would be to have pot legalized and how it won't hurt anybody, no problems what so ever.

The Drug War vs American Civilization

I seeded the above link a little while back. Please take the time to read the article.
However, in case you are to scared to have your reefer madness cured by reading it, then I will paraphrase here:

America would be a better place if pot was legal because our bill of rights would be restored by ending of the War on Drugs. Restoration of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights should be our primary goal as a nation. The prohibition of marijuana is the leading cause of the destruction of our society, our rights as citizens, and our liberty.

What kind of liberty does the majority have when we make laws and the minority doesn't follow. People like you are taking away the majority's liberties. Which is wrong. I hope whatever laws that you are for. Are broken by someone who feels his liberties are more important than yours. And it hurts your life. And when this happens just sit back and say, "Well I break the law, I guess he can too." Keep sticking up for your liberty to break the laws of the country you're so fond of. Isn't the right to have these liberties part of our laws. You sure do push the laws when they benefit you don't you?

Odd argument there Bob. What civil liberties are being taken away from the majority if the US legalizes marijuana? The majority would still have the right to not partake.

your assumptions are beyond belief. I don't use, I'm not an addict, nor are the MAJORITY of people who want to legalize a plant. You are the one who is weak. Bug off.

IT IS A PLANT!

Bad plant.

Thank you very much Jimster! Friend request accepted!!!

Bad plant.

So you keep saying but where's your evidence to back your claim? You cannot go around saying something is bad and leave it at that. Research into this plant proves this plant is a good plant.

I have asked you to provide evidence to back up your claims in many posts and yet i am still waiting, and I know why because there isn't any.

Same is applied to driving and alcohol, if legalized why not have pot testing in the case of child abuse or neglect. Or if a child has become amotivated or there is an amotivated unemployed person this could help guide the remediation their plight, help define the social impact of pot use. Also, before and after prohibibtion alcohol was a known social factor. There is much to learned about the impact on society at the beginning of legalize pot use. Once it is legalized it will be a problem unringing that bell. The part about Wall Street was tougue-in-cheek.

Legalized pot in the US IS an unknown. To pretend that it is the same as alcohol is ignorant. To pretend to know what the legalization of pot's impact would be on society is also ignorant. Contrary to the typical pot user's opinion, their are people in our society that indeed do follow the law and act accordingly. Pot use could very easily increase with legalization. If it is legalized it would be foolish to proceed without monitoring the impact of legal pot.

Jimster misrepresented my previous statement by stating:

"You seem to be conjuring up a scenario of hoards of stoned people wandering around. I just don't see that happening. I don't even see a big jump in usage. In fact, via the de-tabooing of it, may serve to decrease usage."

I prefer to pursue this matter intellectually, instead in the way of the typical pothead.

Baselines of current use should be established, as well as current illegal distribution.

Furthermore, taxing of something that anyone can produce for their own use is unlikely to be a big revenue producer. Just trying be real about this instead of just blowing smoke!

People can make their own beer and wine, grow tobacco but they don't in mass quantities. Why? be cause it is easier and takes less time to go purchase it.

You can grow good pot anywhere, easily. In the south it grows wild. It is easier to grow your own and it is cleaner than the weed on the streets. Speaking of streets, in fact, in Austin I pulled up a three foot plant on the side of Ben White Blvd.

If allowed to propagate in the wild you will be able to gather it like you would gather wild berries. Again, I am being as real as I can be about the subject. I am not just blowing smoke. If you have not tried to grow pot do not make those comments. If you can not grow pot, then you are a possible revenue source. Most potheads are anti-establishment and will resist taxation.

I am sorry if I offend if I use the standard "Pothead" when referring to those who uses pot frequently and many times over simplifies matters non intellectually. I have indulged and it is one of the amusing social interactions to hear people converse as though they smarter and can see things clearer when they are high.

But, me thinks the Jimster doth protest too much!

TYRANT!

Ignorance happens.

The word 'ignorant' is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware.

Hence, we are ignorant of what effect legal pot will have on society. To equate it to alcohol's social effect defines an ignorant statement since we are unaware of what the effect will be. Therefore, an open-minded scientific approach(if it is biased it is not scientific) using baselines, which needs to be developed first in order to apply deductive reasoning in controlling its use. Controlling its use should include restrictions, education, and rehabilitation. What ever revenues collected will probably be spent on the management. It will, most likely, be the saving of revenue by eliminating current enforcement expenditures.

Until serious study is conducted the talk of legalizing pot because it will be good, is just blowing smoke!

Most potheads are anti-establishment and will resist taxation.

Not true at all, taxation will actually bring the drug down in price, the criminals can charge whatever they want because it is not regulated and on the black market.

Provide some evidence to back your claims up before typing on the keyboards, I mean you wouldn't believe me if I told you fairies exist without any undilluted evidence.

If it causes insomnia it is rare, it helps people who have insomnia be able to sleep.

Pot will not be a revenue producer for the state

WTF are you on? There are other benefits to pot than smokimg such as paper and fibre production and this should be used instead of deforestation of the rainforest.

Potheads get real cranky when the are not stoned, a side effect of the sleep deprivation. It can cause insomnia in some. You need a nap.

Not True, I don't get ctanky at work, please produce some unbiased, undiluted evidence to back your claim.

All I see on this seed & many others about leaglizing pot, the anti people seem to post a claim but with no evidence whatsover included to back their claim which in effect makes your claim null and void.

What about the side effects in prescribed drugs? they still produce them every day and want you to keep pumping your stomach with them everyday.

Spankola is totally right we don't know what effects any drug will have or not have on society. That is why I am against them. If the legalization of weed causes any of the problems that alchohol does we don't need it. I would rather have no legalization, than take the chance. It's kinda like going to the dentist for preventative care. Without it you might get a cavity but no one knows for sure. I like preventative care. Keep America strong. Quit using until the laws are changed.

We already have marijuana users in society. Legalizing it would only make it LEGAL. It would also make it easier to keep out of the hands of kids, like alcohol and tobacco. There is no legitimate reason this herb is illegal. You don't want it, fine then don't use it. You don't like alcohol, then don't drink.

Causes problems for society. Don't need it. Give up the fight. It is such a problem that many Americans will go to jail to use. And you say there is nothing wrong with it. Why would anybody put themselves in a situation to go to jail or be fired for a substance if it's no big deal if you use it. It is called addiction. We don't need a bunch of addicts. Even the addicts admit themselves into rehab, because they know what they are doing is wrong. Your going to say make it legal and you won't have these problems. But guess what? It is illegal and you still use. You will break the law for a fix. Give up use your fight for something good for America.

No such thing as marijuana addiction Bob, please give up the ghost. You are still not providing anything to back up your claims.

Why would anybody put themselves in a situation to go to jail or be fired for a substance

Many people went to war in WW2 knowing that they may never return, fighting for something they believed in - Freedom.Many people would risk jail with using MJ because they know of the hypocratic myths that is portrayed.

Even the addicts admit themselves into rehab, because they know what they are doing is wrong. Your going to say make it legal and you won't have these problems. But guess what? It is illegal and you still use. You will break the law for a fix. Give up use your fight for something good for America.

Why are you on about hard drug usage? go to a seed about Heroin etc not on a marijuana seed. Why do insist on putting MJ in the same league as Heroin or other known addictive drugs when the evidence proves that there are no similaritities between the two.

I don't do and never have done heroin because I am educated on the dangers of this sick drug and should remain illegal, MJ on the other hand, you can't get physically addicted, you can't die of an overdose,it does not fcuk your life where you become dependent.

Look no matter what, some people will misuse and abuse, Gambling, food etc should these be illegal?

Yes. Many people, obviously many you probably do not know, have no desire to break the law and no desire to sneak around in the shadow world and associate with the often shady and seedy people involved with selling pot.

Shady and seedy people are involved with the selling of MJ because it is Illegal, ,do you shady and seedy people selling alcohol?

Cigarettes and alcohol kill more people per year than MJ -no deaths caused by MJ has EVER been recorded in the history of man.

4/5 of the total budget on the war of drugs goes to battling MJ while 1/5 on the harder drugs that will kill you - crack, heroin, meth, cocaine????wtf

Shady and seedy people are involved with the selling of MJ because it is Illegal,,do you shady and seedy people selling alcohol?

So you think the drug cartels will just politely walk away from their cash cow, what would cause you to believe such a thing? Explain

Also as I pointed out in a previous post, it's a little naive to believe that the mob closed up shop and walked away when alcohol was legalized. Also an entire bureacracy was created to curtail the inevitably less expensive untaxed and unregulated alcohol black market. Remember there were some pretty extensive efforts taken against the mob, it wasn't a tip toe through the tulips

Cigarettes and alcohol kill more people per year than MJ -no deaths caused by MJ has EVER been recorded in the history of man.

First of all, the key word here is "recorded",no deaths have been recorded however I direct your attention to poor urban depressed, skid-row communities where drugs allow people to undergo and accept a slow lingering withering of their lives as their hopes go up in smoke ...weed, tobacco and crack. Almost all of them smoke and all of them started with weed, but you probably think that's coincidental because you do not know people that did not move on to other drugs from weed.

On the other hand everyone I know that has used heroin cocaine crack or speed have all bar none...all started out smoking pot. The UK's legal heroin deal is a virtual.... no a real life Twilight Zone and its very seedy.

Once you folks get MJ legal that'll be next...opiate the masses, let the weak ones fall I always say.

Secondly even if it does not kill a person physically it definitely diminishes common sense and reasoning...ever meet a pot head? Usually very intelligent yet functioning in a diminished capacity related to their conceptual view of reality

So given the choice of solution that would enhance or diminish the quality of life would your solution be to legalize something that would enhance or diminish the quality of brain functions?

4/5 of the total budget on the war of drugs goes to battling MJ while 1/5 on the harder drugs that will kill you - crack, heroin, meth, cocaine????wtf

Many of the same low life people sell them both...So how do you presume to make the distinction, when they're not. They're just counting the green...and either way you weigh it, they're gonna get theirs...legal or illegal.

In fact if you make it legal, they will simply get more violent and outlandish than they already are now. All the money you think we're going to save will go into a major war to maintain order and civility and prosecute bureaucrats for taking bribes...can you say Mexico?

Hope thats not snarky :-)

I think you are grossly mis-charactorizing this issue as pne being soley promoted by liberals.

Admittedly...I confess, however no matter what side of the fence you sit it is a "liberal" notion to legalize criminal activity and put the "state" on the take for activities that depress, diminish and decrease the quality of human existence in the guise of a temporary rush or high that people get n the form of a buzz, an orgasm or the thrill of winning the lotto

So you think the drug cartels will just politely walk away from their cash cow, what would cause you to believe such a thing? Explain

Because why would anyone buy marijuana when we can grow it ourselves, plus there is more profit to be gained by hard drugs such as cocaine and heroin and these drugs are getting cheaper than MJ.

First of all, the key word here is "recorded",no deaths have been recorded however I direct your attention to poor urban depressed, skid-row communities where drugs allow people to undergo and accept a slow lingering withering of their lives as their hopes go up in smoke ...weed, tobacco and crack. Almost all of them smoke and all of them started with weed, but you probably think that's coincidental because you do not know people that did not move on to other drugs from weed.

On the other hand everyone I know that has used heroin cocaine crack or speed have all bar none...all started out smoking pot. The UK's legal heroin deal is a virtual.... no a real life Twilight Zone and its very seedy.

First off I have smoked weed since I was 16 I am now 33 going on to 34, I can hold down a job, my cognitive responses/co-ordination are all in order, no memory loss...need I go on?

A complete myth - weed is not a gateway to other drugs, if there is such a thing as a gateway drug then in my experience it would have been caffeine first, nicotine and then alcohol because they were the first drugs I started before MJ and I have no intention of injecting myself with Heroin ever. Those people you mention who go onto heroin are most definately those that were easily led in school so in essence it is not the drug but their personalities.

You cannot compare MJ to Heroin that is like comparing a shark to a sardine - another myth.

ever meet a pot head?

I am one.

So given the choice of solution that would enhance or diminish the quality of life would your solution be to legalize something that would enhance or diminish the quality of brain functions?

No evidence whatsoever on diminishing brain activity but a hell of a lot on enhancement - where is yours to back your claim?

Many of the same low life people sell them both...So how do you presume to make the distinction, when they're not.

When most of the people who get jailed are weed users and not dealers. Like I said in a previous post it is only in the hands of the same low life beause it is illegal - not because it is dangerous but because of lack of/suppression of education.

In fact if you make it legal, they will simply get more violent and outlandish than they already are now.

Then why is most of the weed in the US is grown in the US? 5% is imported from Canada, 40% from south of the border and 45% in the US.

From reading your post I take it you have not watch the documentary from my links I gave.

Because why would anyone buy marijuana when we can grow it ourselves, plus there is more profit to be gained by hard drugs such as cocaine and heroin and these drugs are getting cheaper than MJ.

I don't know why would anyone but tomatoes and potatoes when they can just grow it themselves?....Hopefully we agree food is a more needful item.

Foreign or domestic Hells Angels, BGF, Aryan Brotherhood, Mexican Mob, whatever, theres big money and pot and they're all quite content with the profit

I grow my own tomatoes

Foreign or domestic Hells Angels, BGF, Aryan Brotherhood, Mexican Mob, whatever, theres big money and pot and they're all quite content with the profit

Maybe when pot is legalized they can go into a legitimate business in the production and selling of pot - after all they have the experience necessary to monopolize the market

Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER.

Au contrare mon frere....the NWO will guarantee you legalized pot, they want to minimize your influence and you effectiveness.

They're going to do all they can to help get you sensually enslaved and distracted in every manner you desire, all forms of entertainment, movies, music, reality shows, tabloid mags, sexual pornography, drugs, alcohol anything you want, and they will dictate to you who you are to vote for and you will actually believe you freely chose. Just like you think you're fighting for legalization, you're really not, but if they don't make you jump through some hoops to get what you want, it won't feel like you've really won anything....

...Ah-h-h-h ....Utopia, Orwellian style, mass mind control!

Well, your post has probably put you on the NSA, FBI, and the CIA hit parade. Take a chill pill or a relaxitive and put your tin foil hat back on.

Wow.... Just wow.

Bravo spankola...thanks for being a little more reasonably sensible than me!

I had many many of these discussions when I was a young dumb college kid 30 years ago and came to the same naive revelations ( while high of course )

Like some of these folks I really thought I was saying something profound too

"To pretend that it is the same as alcohol is ignorant." This part of the statement is true, pot is much less harmful than alcohol.

This part of the statement is true, pot is much less harmful than alcohol.

So hypothetically do you think a society where everyone smoked pot would be a better moire productive advanced society than one where everyone drank wine?

Is there a nation or a people contemporaneously or historically one can site where that would prove smoking pot has been beneficial to the stability or advancing of society?

At some point, some pot head somewhere may ask this question and come to an honest conclusion....

As for me I'm giddy with glee that our forefathers drank, rather than smoked. Don't believe we'd be the nation we are with a Constitution drawn up by a bunch of idealistic potheads.

If they smoked pot they'd probably be like..."dude, we don't need nothing on paper as long as everybody just stays cool and gets along! :-)

You may be mistaken about whether or not our founding fathers smoked. Many of them grew hemp and George Washington wrote about the pleasures of smoking hemp in his diaries.

"If they smoked pot they'd probably be like..."dude, we don't need nothing on paper as long as everybody just stays cool and gets along! :-) "

Wouldn't that be nice.

"So hypothetically do you think a society where everyone smoked pot would be a better moire productive advanced society than one where everyone drank wine? ".

I said that pot was less harmful than alcohol. Your hypothetical is quite a stretch from my comment. But sure, I'd prefer to live in a society where people who are going to use a substance, use Pot instead of alcohol.

"Is there a nation or a people contemporaneously or historically one can site where that would prove smoking pot has been beneficial to the stability or advancing of society?"

Marijuana has been used by many cultures historically. It is an herb, it is silly to keep the consumption of it illegal. As to the benefits to society...well the tax revenue would do us a lot of good right now.

Thank you Jimster! The usage rate will probably remain about where it is.

Who the hell is talking about everyone? Do you really think everyone is going to be smoking pot?

That's silly.

Many have tried and don't like it. Others don't believe in it and won't. Still others will be restricted because of the work they do. It won't be everyone, or evenby most.

Spot on jimster and not everyone drinks alcohol and that's legal - do you see every one on the streets or at work intoxicated by booze? be realistic mj bashers, some people abuse many things (gambling, food, sex, fitness, prescription drugs) should we makes these illegal? why not go the whole yard and ban anything you can die from such as automobiles, planes, nuts, guns, humans????

Is there a nation or a people contemporaneously or historically one can site where that would prove smoking pot has been beneficial to the stability or advancing of society?

Several Native American and Meso-American Nations did smoke pot, peyote, cocoa, and other substances that are now illegal, it was mainly the shamans and chiefs for rituals, but the practice was not limited to them, many commoners also used this substances.

As for me I'm giddy with glee that our forefathers drank, rather than smoked. Don't believe we'd be the nation we are with a Constitution drawn up by a bunch of idealistic potheads.

Pot in America:

1600-1890s

Domestic production of hemp encouraged

American production of hemp was encouraged by the government in the 17th century for the production of rope, sails, and clothing. Marijuana is the dried flowers that come from Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica plants. Cannabis sativa is usually used to produce hemp. It has longer fibers (than Cannabis indica) that are preferred for hemp use.

In 1619 the Virginia Assembly passed legislation requiring every farmer to grow hemp. Hemp was allowed to be exchanged as legal tender in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Maryland.

Declaration of Independence was originally written on hemp paper.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

Washington and Jefferson both smoked marijuana. Washington smoked it for his chronic toothaches. Two idealistic Potheads, I guess...

Domestic production flourished until after the Civil War, when imports and other domestic materials replaced hemp for many purposes. In the late nineteenth century, marijuana became a popular ingredient in many medicinal products and was sold openly in public pharmacies.

After the Mexican Revolution of 1910, Mexican immigrants flooded into the U.S., introducing to American culture the recreational use of marijuana.

The herb became associated with the immigrants, and the fear and prejudice about the Spanish speaking newcomers became associated with marijuana. Anti-Marijuana campaigners warned against the encroaching Marijuana Menace, and terrible crimes were falsely attributed to marijuana and the Mexicans who used it.

During the Great Depression, massive unemployment increased public resentment and fear of Mexican immigrants, escalating public and governmental concern about the problem of marijuana.

This instigated a flurry of trumped up research which linked the use of marijuana with violence, crime and other socially deviant behaviors, primarily committed by racially inferior or underclass communities. By 1931, 29 states had outlawed marijuana.

However, it was all a scam, a con, foisted on the public by companies that didn't want the competition Marijuana represented. That is the real fear, protecting their monoploy is the real reefer madness.

brownstone234 must work for one of the fearful to be so set against something he has so convincingly demonstrated he knows absolutely nothing about.

Several Native American and Meso-American Nations did smoke pot, peyote, cocoa, and other substances that are now illegal, it was mainly the shamans and chiefs for rituals, but the practice was not limited to them, many commoners also used this substances.

Well it certainly helped them huh?

Do you realize You just made a list for the topic of "where are they now"

LOL

Well, let's see... Who helped the Native and Meso-Americans? Oh, it was the drunk Europeans that helped the pagans become "civilized". These cultures were doing just fine before the self-righteous, we know what's best for you, pompous, greedy, resource hogs came over from Europe and forced their culture on the natives with the barrel of a gun. Seems to me brownstone (must be a heroin user with that name) that you are a direct descendant of these 'holy' men bent on saving the heathen. If you cannot bring productive, substantiated, and well form arguments to the debate, then don't come. If your only rebuttal is a stupid, meaningless, and hearty LOL, then game over, you lose, I win. Pick up your participation ribbon and go away. You only brought lies and propaganda to the forum. You brought nothing of value, and your pathetic LOL is all the proof and validation we need flag you as : NO VALUE!

Washington and Jefferson both smoked marijuana. Washington smoked it for his chronic toothaches. Two idealistic Potheads, I guess...

Who says nothing good came from marijuana? A great nation built by potheads - sheer class

Right, then the founding fathers, in the spirit of unity, took the constitution and rolled up a big crowd pleasing zeppelin. Sheer stupidity!

Paul Revere, "Dude, was that oneth by sea or twoeth by... ah hell, give me another hit. I am sure everything will be cool, uh, what was I saying?"

You know the worst thing to happen to pot user's reputation's is the pot comedies movies. Most smokers are not pot heads, most are not Spicoli, just as most drinkers are not Alcoholics. It is pure ingnorance to think otherwise.

I am sorry if my post was a buzz kill. But really does Seabhoc know the true profile of "most smokers". Not the pot mythical statistic but the true statistic. My previous post was a satirical response to the posts that tried to promote the myth that the founding fathers were pot smokers.

Actually, the worst thing to happen to pot smokers reputation is the incredible urban legends they create. Some pot users start believing their own BS. It is known to cause paranoia and panic attacks and memory damage. It is the definition of ignorance to claim to know what the average pot smoker is when you have never bothered to seek out legitimate studies that show what "is" the average pot smoker.

Just like the alcoholic, the pot smoker does not think he or society is adversely affected by their habit.

Like I said before being lazy and stupid is legal, so why not "legalizit".

But do not promote it as though it is anyway beneficial, with the exception of undercutting the illegal trade. A surrender of sorts to criminals for the purpose of eliminating the criminal activity. I do not think it is criminal to smoke pot, and on that basis there should not be a law against it.

If pot smokers want this to move forward you need to lay off for a while and come up with plan with studies that are fact based. FDA approval requires 5 to 7 years. You might want to get fast track approval on the grounds of saving lives because of the current Mexican drug crisis.

But just look at all this pro pot prattle and is there really any intellectual discussion on the level of this post.

Pretty darn close for a stoner but.........

It was introduced into regular usuage by migrant Mexican farm hands. When the locals started picking up the habit it was an encroachment of one society on another. The intolerance of the South led to the conclusion, "you do not want to start acting like a bunch of Mexicans".

I just think that if you are unemployed you stay away from anything that might impair you from seeking employment. Is it wrong to use legalized pot for motivating some one to get a job? It does sound like an oxymoron.

You have posted some of the biggest pot myths and this part of my post opened your sleepy red eyes. Thanks for noticing me.

You have posted some of the biggest pot myths

Show me where I have posted any pot myths and pleas provide any evidence you are withholding from us to back your claims, I have asked Bob but he failed to give any at my request

Maybe it increases self perceived stoner greatness It certainly does not improve your ability to operate a train.

Marijuana does not have a positive side effect for cancer but for the nausea it or treatments may create. It just makes life with cancer easier.

POT IT A KNOWN CARCINOGEN AND MULTIPLIES THE CARCINOGENICITY OF MANY OTHER KNOWN CARCINOGENS, ie, alcohol, tobacco, smog, on and on.

It certainly does not improve your ability to operate a train.

Right lets get one thing straight, do you see train operators drunk whilst on the job? No you don't so why do you think everyone is going to be stoned at work? There you have posted a pot myth

Pot is bad

You keep saying this but where is your evidence to back this claim of yours?

I am fighting for something good Bob, your liberty. You are only helping the oppressors with your blind complicity.

Quit going to pro-drug sites for your info and go to some anti-drug sites. I go to both for my info. Try it if you care to get both sides. I've actually been around drug users and seen the effects and they usually match what the anti-sites are saying. That is why I have the opinion I have. Also your drug of choice is against the law. Right or wrong. And you need it so bad you will break the law and are actually the ones supporting the drug cartels that are killing innocent people. If you weren't breaking the law then innocent people wouldn't be dying. I guess it's O.K. in your mind as long as you get your fix. And this is the liberty you are fighting for. Innocent people dead so I can smoke a joint. Sounds good to me.

I've actually been around drug users and seen the effects and they usually match what the anti-sites are saying.

Ah there you go Bob you said drug users not marijuana users. See the trouble with anti sites is that they tarnish marijauana with the same brush as heroin, cocaine etc. They do not distinguish between each drug. you really are clutching at straws now.

Quit going to pro-drug sites for your info

I actually get my information from scientific based sites

Also your drug of choice is against the law. Right or wrong.

Just because the law says so - does this mean that we shouldn't do it even though the law is wrong. Laws change, something you might enjoy as a pastime can become illegal tomorrow and you would stop because the Law says so? It's about time you control your life and stop being dependent on other people making decisions for you.

Excuse me for not specifying marijuana. But my experience have been with many drugs including marijuana. O.K. do you understand from what I wrote that marijuana is involved. Tell me a better way to write it so you understand I am talking about marijuana. I don't want to confuse you. Maybe I can type it slower. M a r i j u a n a s t u d i e s a n d p e r s o n a l e x p e r i e n c e s. We are a land of laws and should follow them. Plain and simple. If you are against a law then try to get it changed. But breaking it until it is changed is still totally wrong. Sorry. So a murderer has a right to do what he wants. Why should other people make decisions for him? O.K. now it's your turn to say because he is hurting other people. And now it's my turn to say how many people die in the war against drugs. People trying to enforce the laws of America. Doing their best to do their job. And people like you and Congresswoman Nancy P. telling them it's un American to enforce the laws of this nation. The only reason you have any rights is because of this great nation. Quit bashing it and start supporting it. Follow the laws that are in place. Don't pick and choose which ones you believe in and not follow the rest. Follow all of them. Change them if you want but don't break them. Remember war on drugs and innocent people dying because you need your fix.

We are a land of laws and should follow them

OK Bob lets go with your philosophy of following laws and your way of thinking, lets say the government introduces a law that every family must give up their eldest child to be killed. Now everyone knows this law is wrong that they would not allow the police or any other authority to take their child away from them, would you tell these people you must follow the law until it is changed?How high do you want me to jump sir?

If you are against a law then try to get it changed

We are

So a murderer has a right to do what he wants

It depends if that murder was justified that is why there are a number of degrees of murder. Do you think it is right to drop bombs on civilians because of their leaders actions?

You cannot compare murder with smoking marijuana - everyone knows it is wrong to murder someone but smoking a herb? come on. Also a murderer can get finance for education after serving time, someone who has possession of MJ on their record cannot. can't you see the hypocrisy in that?

People will break laws no matter what. We are not robots. My mind does not work that way.

And now it's my turn to say how many people die in the war against drugs.

A war that is clearly unwinable

Follow the laws that are in place. Don't pick and choose which ones you believe in and not follow the rest. Follow all of them.

I will pick and choose where common sense prevails. I don't need know one telling me how to run my life.

Once again Bob, you make unsubstantiated assumptions and accusations. I have studied this issue from all sides, for many years now. I know the anti-marijuana arguments as well as you do. I also know the pro-sites you speak of, as well as the accredited scientific studies that support much of what I speak to. I too have been around drug users, marijuana users, smokers, drinkers, and I can say that the science is much more accurate than the stereotypical, unsubstantiated dogma coming out of the anti-marijuana oppressors mouths. As for your assertion that I am a Law breaker causing death and destruction, I can only say this... I don't use. It is currently an illegal substance, so I don't need a fix. However, I do believe in the repeal of this prohibition. Now let me be real clear here. I am not for legalization of drugs or poisons where unbiased science, proves them to be a major health risk. Alcohol, Tobacco, Crack, Heroin, etc. all qualify. If this country decided, after careful scientific study, to outlaw alcohol, I would not fight that. However, I will fight an unjust prohibition that was put in place to protect specific business sector interests, having nothing to do with science but everything to do with political and corporate greed. It is the law that is bad, not the plant. The only way we can fix bad laws is to repeal them. The only way to repeal bad laws is through intelligent and honest discussion and then representative action by our elected Representatives.

I also firmly believe that the border violence is not being caused by marijuana smokers, but by the prohibition laws, their backers, and their enforcers. It is this prohibition that has created the police state we now live in, all thanks to generations of pious people that believe it is their god-given right to tell others what then can and cannot do to and for themselves. It is the War on Drugs that is killing innocent people, not the innocent marijuana smoker.

MARS quit twisting my words. Am I going to have to start typing slow again to get my point across. Is the marijuana killing too many brain cells? And why are you supporting the drug cartels? Murder is wrong unless it's the people supplying your fix. INNOCENT marijuana smoker supporting the cartels. Marijuana is their #1 cash source. Like it or not you are supporting the cartels. Like I have said before. Get the law changed and there is no problem. Right now there is a law against it. So these people shouldn't be using. You shouldn't break a law just because you want to. The majority should have a say. Change the majority's mind and then smoke all you want. Until then follow the rules. I bet this isn't the only law we wouldn't agree on and there might even be a few that we do. But a law is a law and we need them. This country is built on freedom but, we all can't have our way. That is why majority has to rule. And whoever can't handle living with the majority should leave. Not break the law. Also both the anti and pro sites have scientific studies they just print what they want you to read.

MARS quit twisting my words. Am I going to have to start typing slow again to get my point across

Show me where I am twisting your words? I only highlighted what you propose and that is we must follow every single law even though most are just plain stupid.

You are not getting your point across because you are not providing what I asked for - evidence to make your point.

It is not the majority that has a say, it is the big pharma who lobby government to keep the status quo. And just what is a majority? 51-49? Just because you have a majority who think one way does not make them right.

Murder is wrong unless it's the people supplying your fix

Why do you presume I'm an addict? how the fcuk can you put me in the same basket as a junkie hooked on crack, heroin or other @!$%# that fcuks you up? How fcuking dare you.

I lead a normal life, I go to work, I live in a house, I have a good circle of family and friends, I am happy, I don't go around every minute, every hour wondering where my next hit is coming from, I don't steal. Stop being so stereotypical. You say you know some marijuana users who have problems..well maybe they use hard drugs as well, I know a lot who use various drugs for recreation and some - not all - have problems.

You must come down to reality and know that many people use cocaine, ecstacy. lsd who are not addicted but use them for recreation just like getting drunk at the weekends, - Not all users are addicts, just like all drinkers are not alcoholics.

An unjust law is no law at all